The Beatles and the Rolling Stones. You know'em. You love'em.
In two separate conversations this week, with two dear friends who also happen to be two wonderful bass players, the topic of who was better, The Beatles or the Stones, was discussed. One friend simply said, "Apples and oranges." The other? "It's not apples and oranges. They were two rock and roll bands who came out of England at the same. One was better. Simple."
My intention this week is not a Beatles VS. Stones debate, though feel free to weigh in, if that's what will float your boat.
Some friends and I were listening to "Kaleidoscope" by Siouxsie & The Banshees and we all offered a similar opinion. Few bands, if any, sounded like Siouxsie & The Banshees before Siouxsie, and though many "goth," "punk," and "new wave" bands tried after Siouxsie, it was the Banshees who created the sound. A sound we feel was propelled by the drumming of Budgie and delivered with the evil grace of Siouxsie Sioux. Very special, like it or not.
Two others bands, from two somewhat different genres, seemed to have cornered the market on that special sound. AC/DC and The Cars. There were hard rock bands before and aft, as well as new wave bands. But the sound of AC/DC and The Cars is distinctive. It's nothing to shake a stick at. It was their own.
Even The Beatles and the Stones had peers doing the same exact thing at the same time. Not as well, but they were there with the same sound. As years went on, bands from the 60s right up to the present, emulated the Beatles harmonies, chord changes and overall sound. With the Stones, it's only rock and roll, so that sound was hard to avoid.
So your headstart---Siouxsie, AC/DC, and The Cars-
What successful band truly had an original sound, a sound that seems to have been created with the release of their first LP?
I would quibble a bit with The Cars, Sal. I lived in Boston at the time and heard them a half dozen times before their record came out - first when they were called Captain Swing and then later as one of dozens of Boston bar bands in 1977 (they played my freshman mixer). They were OK, but nothing startlingly original. When their record came out I was a college DJ and we were stunned at how thire sound had been completely transformed in the studio by Roy Thomas Baker, who gave them their Queen-style vocals that became their signature sound. I think Elliott Easton is a fantastic guitarist and their quirky, agitated songwriting style was appealing but as developers of a sound, more credit really should go to RTB.
ReplyDeleteAround the same time U2's first record came out. "Boy" in my opinion sounded nothing like anything else at the time and I'm fairly certain this was an innovation of Edge/Bono rather than producers or a studio makeover. I think they fit the bill for truly creating a new sound with their first record more than The Cars...
Here are some bands that I thought brought really original sounds:
ReplyDeleteViolent Femmes
early U2
early REM
The Ramones
For the Beatles and Stones, they Beatles obviously were stunningly original to the end, but the Stones can't be given short thrift on originality through Exile on Main Street. Who else had written songs remotely like Sympathy for the Devil and Gimme Shelter before they were released? I think it's hard for people to remember because the Stones have been on songwriting autopilot for 30 years.
@Jeff
ReplyDeleteI understand the quibbling about The Cars, especially of you experienced first hand what they weren't. Though I maintain, it's a sound, even if RTB is the reason, that had rarely been heard before or since.
@TumblingDice
I definitely have my thoughts on The Beatles V. Stones, but I'm gonna sit this out for a bit. Just for a bit.
I don't know if it was the subconscious clue you gave last week about Siouxsie, but I happened to hear "Somebody to Love" on the radio over the weekend and snapped to the conclusion that Siouxsie "stole" her sound from the Grace part of Jefferson Airplane. Not that I would actually defend that argument.
ReplyDeleteSteely Dan (I have a friend who believed through the first 3 albums that they were a British band), Wire (so much of the last truly new sounds are tied up with punk, postpunk and new wave), and I'm still not really sure what Prefab Sprout were up to on their first album (do they qualify as successful?).
re: RTB, isn't Queen a better example?
ReplyDeleteDEVO is the obvious answer. Original sound. Defined a genre (sort of). Semi-successful band. "Are We Not Men?" sounded like nothing else I'd ever heard.
ReplyDeleteGary Numan?
ReplyDeleteAdam, Eve, Cain and Abel, singing and drumming on rocks
ReplyDeleteWhen "Boy" came out I thought U2 sounded like a pop version of Public Image. That first PiL album only had 2 real songs ("Public Image", and "Lowlife"), but the sound was totally new. Punk recorded as Reggae Dub. I felt the same way when I heard Gen X's "Dancing with myself. Listen to "Public Image", "I will Follow", and "Dancing With Myself", in that order, and you'll see what I mean.
ReplyDeleteI was a teenager in the 60s and over here in England you definitely had to choose between the Beatles and the Stones. We're pretty tribal in these parts. I opted for the Beatles and it has stayed with me. I've not really enjoyed the Stones much since....well, Brown Sugar really.
ReplyDeleteAs for genre-creating acts, how about Hendrix and Pink Floyd? They certainly seemed to arrive without warning or precedent.
Gang of 4, Sly & the Family Stone, Los Lobos, J Geils Band, Little Feat, Dan Hicks & His Hot Licks, Television, the list goes on & on... a strikingly recognizable and individual sound from the first album(s) on... btw, as the years went by I appreciated the Beatles more & more, but I'm still a Stone (circa 66-70).
ReplyDeletethe band!
ReplyDeletei'm not even that crazy about them..but they were a fully formed outfit by the time they cut their first lps...and they influenced everybody from hari and clapton to all the pubrock bands etc etc
hugely influential and stylistically true from beginning to end
cheers
I was just going to comment on The Band. They are the foundation of the entire "Americana" sound and proving to be more influential as time passes.
DeleteAs to Beatles or Stones...I used to think I was firmly a Stones guy but over the years The Beatles continue to impress and dare I say it...entertain. I don't have a whole lot of use for most of the Stones catalog post Exile (although I really like Some Girls).
as per pil/u2
ReplyDeleteno doubt the edge was massively influenced by keith levene...even on the new jah wobble-keith levene album: yin-yang...levene has moments of echo laden frenzy that remind you of his influence on so many that came after...
almost like johnny thunders, a wobbly great...
cheers
Interesting someone else mentioned Jefferson Airplane. I was also listening to a lot of Airplane this weekend. I wasn't musically sentinent when they were cutting their first records, so not sure if they totally fall into Sal's category of true originals, but they embody "the San Francisco sound" as well as if not better than anyone, and I believe they were the first SF band out of the box with a record.
ReplyDeleteTheir catalog is so much deeper and more interesting than "Somebody to Love" and "White Rabbit," great as those songs are (though I can barely listen to them anymore). Just looked it up: Slick apparently wrote White Rabbit in early 1966, before Revolver or "Strawberry Fields" or Sgt. Pepper's, so good for her. The Airplane might also have been the most eclectic group outside of the Beatles. For a hugely popular group with songs as famous as almost any in rock, the Airplane seems oddly underrated these days, burdened I guess by hippie excess and what the band eventually became as Jefferson Starship. Check out the album Crown of Creation: there are some clunkers but also some amazing cuts.
PS: When I was listening to the Airplane on spotify I somehow ended up seguing into some Starship songs and, much to my horror, I didn't hate them. As arena rock goes, "Jane" isn't bad. And "Miracles" is a pretty impressive ballad/record.
Bruce H
Man do I LOVE "Jane." Thanks Bruce for opening that door.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I love Los Lobos, and GOD...The Band...I just can't hear it. It's roots rock. Twisted and specialized for sure. But not really "first." Not what I'm thinking.
Television is a great example. This is a band with one great record and that one record alone has placed them in the hall of fame. Talk about a statement!
Not first album, but huge game-changer: Beggars Banquet. Until then, the Stones were always sort of chasing after The Beatles, if not stylistically, then in terms of success. That album changed everything, and gave them a depth they mined straight through Exile. No one else has ever written rock songs with that sort of power and depth, whether a straight shot like "Honkey Tonk Women" or more complicated songs like "Sympathy for the Devil" or "Gimme Shelter."
ReplyDeleteI think the 50s were a time for firsts, particularly with electric blues and the birth of rock and roll. Things were going on back then that must have sounded like they were coming from Mars to the people hearing them for the first time. 60s were more about integrating and weaving together a lot of those influences that came before, although in ways that were completely original. It always blew my mind that Beatles cited Smokey Robinson & the Miracles as an influence ... until I listened to "In My Life" and realized the song had the exact same rhythm as any SR&TM ballad.
Re: Cars. There's a bit in Please Kill Me where one of the guys in Television complains about hearing a Cars song in a record store and feeling as though their band was ripped off and/or missed a window that The Cars jumped through. Maybe vocally, but The Cars had a pop sense Television rarely got anywhere near. And no way were the Cars going to come up with a song like "Marquee Moon."
Eddie Van Halen. I'm not a big fan, but there's no denying that nobody sounded like him before and plenty of people sounded like him after he arrived.
ReplyDeleteSantana, King Crimson, and take your choice of the Krautrock bands. It's weird to think that Tangerine Dream were at one point almost mainstream with the Sorcerer soundtrack, but have been relegated to new age status while Neu! and Kraftwerk get the retro pub.
ReplyDeleteStruggling with the Moody Blues - they fit better in the previous category of bands that changed their sound to become popular. Maybe they caught a Floyd concert. But the change resulted in the run of In Search of the Lost Chord/Threshold of a Dream/To Our Children's Children which had a unique sound - all the damn flutes, mellotrons, and spoke word pieces mixing with intriguing guitar bits and splicing. It worked so well they rode it to schlocky-town. I can't even remember what Every Good Boy... or Seventh Sojourn sounded like.
Not gonna touch the horn bands of the early 70's. That's probably for a school band geek to tackle.
Hi everyone,
ReplyDeletei believe Television is the answer.
tom verlaine & co. were far away from anything else at the time their first single (little johnny jewel) and album (marquee moon) came out from the pre-punk NY era. tom, richardhell & pattismith had the best ideas of the time. listen to hey Joe (version)/piss factory of the first PS single!!!
after them i say dream syndicate first (days of wine and roses) and second (medicine show). actually they've been a band with two different starting sounds.
max from italy
i love that first dream syndicate album, but i think of it as one of the many 80's descendants of VU.
DeleteNo mention of the Talking Heads? Those first few albums, especially with Eno behind the board, were classic. And singularly identifiable. Additionally, remembering back in the day: the only two bands from the new wave genre initially played on FM radio along with Boston, Foreigner, and that sort were the Cars and Talking Heads. They were responsible for opening the ears of many a suburban listener, allowing them to find Television, Ramones, Gang of Four, etc. God bless 'em.
ReplyDeletere AC/DC, they're a band that benefited from sheer willpower - keep doing one thing long enough and, if you survive, you will become known for it. Through Dirty Deeds US release, tho, I doubt that their fans included more than bikers and other bar bands that played covers of "She's Got the Jack." Even punkers I knew in the 70's were derisive of their lack of originality. i can't put my finger on when that began to change for them - getting Mutt Lange as a producer? "You Shook Me All Night Long"? Other 3 chord bands are revered, but usually not outside their stylistic ghettoes. Similarly, it took the Ramones a long time to be considered "successful." I would place their mass acceptance at Rock and Roll High School .
ReplyDeleteFor me, R.E.M. Their first few albums were different from anything I'd heard up to that point, and though they morphed into a different band later, they paved the way for jangle pop and obscure lyrics in the 80's.
ReplyDeleteoh man, almost forgot about Creedence.
ReplyDelete