So I have this thing about Tony Visconti producing David Bowie. As much as I love Bowie's last few albums, my feeling is that I would have loved them more had the production had a little less of everything, especially 2003's "Reality," which features some of Bowie's best material but is so in your face sonically, you barely have time to breathe. Drums, guitars, effects, reverb...all...too...MUCH!
Same with 2002's "Heathen," which I have gone on record saying is in my Top 5 Bowie records of all-time. Brilliant, but busy. Check out the demo of The Pixies cover "Cactus" from that record before Visconti got a hold of it. Subtle difference, but there is a difference and to my ears, it feels better, almost "Low" era.
The new Aaron Neville record is released tomorrow. It's a collection of the old rock and roll and doo-wop tunes Neville was raised on. This could have easily ended up a glossy mishap. Instead, thanks to the co-production of Don Was and Keith Richards, it is not. It's a killer. The producers nailed it.
Is there one record where the production has plagued you for years? It could be a record you almost love or one you wanted to love, but just can't because of the sound.
All of Bruce Springsteen's albums with Brendan O'Brien producing. Especially 'Magic', which IMO, had his some of his strongest post-reunion songs. The sound is too compressed, too loud, too busy.
ReplyDeleteAmen, Troy. When can Steven get ahold of the next one?!
DeleteIIt's funny -- Bruce's albums all have producing question marks for me, since Wild/Innocent, which I still listen to a lot. BTR is SO bombast; Darkness, which he labored over forever, sounds compressed and clenched to me, probably because it was labored over forever. It's still the Bruce album I go back to the most, but not for its production. The River had that "Clearmountain" brightness to it that's almost tinny in some places and thuggish in others (RamRod)....Nebraska, which everyone oohs over, I think actually benefitted from the band when he finally played them live. I think with Bruce, he's sometimes a live artist trapped in a studio.
DeleteGeorge Harrison`s "All Things Must Pass"
ReplyDeleteTHE SONGS ARE GENERALLY HUGE ON THEIR OWN , BUT P.SPECTORS INVOLVEMENT MAKES THEM ALMOST NOISY.
Iggy and the Stooges "Raw Power". First Bowie flubbed it than Iggy has a chance at it and he redlines it.
ReplyDeleteThe one that always jumps out for me when this topic comes up: "Life" by Neil Young. The production on this sucked -- which is a shame because there are actually some good songs on this. Wikipedia says most of the songs were recorded live, so maybe that's the problem..
ReplyDeleteThere are probably other albums out there, but your premise would imply that you stuck with the album anyway because of it's production. I've passed on a *lot* of things because I don't like the production, so there would be no way to remember them at this point. :-/
Oddly enough, I'm reading Visconti's biography right now (and it's a good read, too). The one album that has always haunted me with its production is Tim by The Replacements. Their best collection of songs, all rendered in what sounds like a dim, murky studio and a four-track recorder. Pleased to Meet Me got it right, professional but with enough rough edges, but had too much filler. Then again, Tim sounds like Abbey Road compared to the basement demos Westerberg has released as official product over the last decade.
ReplyDeleteI've always hated the white backing vocalists on Ray Charles and Sam Cooke studio tracks (among other R&B/soul singers). They've always sounded wildly out of place to me.
With The Beatles, I've always noticed how far ahead of the pack they were simply by having an estalbished/real producer as opposed to an impresario/hustler recording their albums -- thinking in particular of Shel Talmy (Kinks), Andrew Loog Oldham (Stones) and Kit Lambert (The Who). It took quite a few albums for those bands to catch up, production wise, to what The Beatles had from day one with Martin. You can listen to jazz albums from around the time, and they sound far more crisp and alive than what most pop/rock records sounded like.
"I've always hated the white backing vocalists on Ray Charles and Sam Cooke studio tracks (among other R&B/soul singers). They've always sounded wildly out of place to me"
DeleteI was just complaining about this!! They have great soul songs backed by women singing really high soprano. Who thought that sounded good?! How high was Ray Charles that he did not veto that?!
This is an obscure one, but if the production hadn't been so screwed up, it wouldn't be: The Eddie Boy Band. They were huge in Chicago in the '70s. Great lyrics, excellent musicianship, killer rhythm section. After building up a reputation as one of the best live bands around, they were signed by MCA. The production was so awful, that their songs were almost unrecognizable and the expert musicianship was lost in the mud. The album tanked and they soon broke up. Core members of the band gave it another shot, under a different name with more of a country rock emphasis, but it was never the same. Lead guitarist Josh Leo went on to a successful career, touring with J.D. Souther and others, and then writing and producing more than 20 #1 country songs and albums for Lee Ann Rimes, Kathy Mattea, and others. Mark Goldenberg, their other guitar player, played on (and wrote) some of Linda Ronstadt's biggest hits, did session work for Eels, Willie Nelson, Chris Isaak, and others, and has been Jackson Browne's lead guitarist for almost two decades. There was a ton of talent in the band, but MCA's producer killed agreat band.
ReplyDeletesome girls. it sounded like a rolling stones cover band playing three floors below me. i know, punky and diy and all that but not, i thought, all that enjoyable. i think it sounded better cleaned for the rerelease a year or so ago.
ReplyDeletetime out of mind. great songs. great album. too much daniel lanois for me.
I discovered "Layla" with the 20th anniversary version and came to know it as truth. When the original mix was released, I was conflicted as to which version was "better". How did that one get so goofed?
ReplyDeleteHow about every record recorded and released between 1983-1990?
ReplyDeleteThis is pretty funny. Graham Parker when he played "Get Started" in NYC said when he sent an MP3 of it to the Rumour members who hadn't played on it (everyone but Schwarz and Bodnar), one of them snarked back (Belmont?) "Was this from the 80s?" And Graham had thought he had somehow avoided the 80s sound, but he realized he hadn't.
DeleteSeveral of his other albums suffered from the 80s more, though, like Up Escalator, Real Macaw and Another Grey Area
yeah my first thought was raw power too ...had the original lp and mix and sound was terrible...
ReplyDeleteplus back then you had horrible oil shortage vinyl to contend with as well...so anything that was relatively calm and low key was lost in a wave of clicks and pops
ps- im not big on bowie but i always thought tony visconti to be one great producer!
cheers
I should be clear. I like Tony Visconti. I certainly love what he's done on past Bowie records. I just wonder why the recent records needed to be busy and loud. Could be Bowie's fault, but probably not.
ReplyDeletewell man who sold the world didn't sound remotely like low or the lodger...so i'd imagine bowie has a say in matters! ha!
ReplyDeletehaven't heard recent bowies but i'd imagine he & visconti are just trying to "stay current"
look at the latest cale...1919 fans are shrieking at that production
wiki visconti...truly astounding body of work!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Visconti
cheers
Gotta agree re Brendan O'Brien...as much as I LOVE Magic, the Boss albums he's produced sound absolutely horrid...whereas his work w/Matthew Sweet is perfect....I honestly can't find one single thing wrong with Visconti's work with Bowie...I think the problem, if any, is "over-arrangement" rather than over-production.
ReplyDelete"I think the problem, if any, is "over-arrangement" rather than over-production."
ReplyDeleteI guess that's another way of hearing it.
Tut brings up GH and Spector. I've always loved "All Things Must Pass," but from day one felt like it was an assault. I heard "Wah Wah" and at a young age, thought I was listening to heavy metal.
Cheap Trick, "In Color", The Clash "Give'em Enough Rope", Television "Adventure", Iggy Pop "New Values".
ReplyDeleteI would have said Give 'Em Enough Rope too, but a couple years ago I found a bootleg of demos of those songs, and they don't sound much better than the album. Same for live versions.
DeleteCurious what people here think about Street Legal. I only know the album from the remastered CD version from a few years back, but I've read reviews that said it was a huge improvement over the original vinyl mix, like it was almost a different album.
Bruce H.
I was going to say "In Color" by Cheap Trick as well. So, the other one that has bothered me over the years is "Sandinista!" by The Clash, but it could simply be a case of overindulgence.
ReplyDeletethe thing about "In Color" I still remember was the band saying Tom Werman was a genius (although I suppose he did get it right by the time of "Heaven Tonight") and Jack Douglas was less than a moron.
Deletei always wondered what Van Halen would have sounded like without Ted Templeman's wall of reverb. Not that I was complaining.
I was just never a fan of the mix of "Exile on Main Street," which may have been the best they could do as a result of how it was recorded, but still, Jagger is way back in the mix on the original.
ReplyDeleteI've read that that was a bone of contention between Mick and Keith, who apparently mixed the album, and why Mick downplays the album in interviews.
DeleteBruce H.
I remember seeing the Shirts at the Bottom Line and being blown away by Annie Golden's voice. It was huge. I immediately went and bought the album and she sounded like a mouse. Still not over it and I'm sure it blew her career if you dscount her stint as Cliff's girlfriend on Cheers.
ReplyDeleteThis may be heresy, but there are some parts of "Five Leaves Left" by Nick Drake that to me are over arranged and overproduced – even though Joe Boyd reckons it is his best album. (Joe Boyd autobiography also good read!.
ReplyDeleteAlmost anything by Rick Wakeman.
And finally - out of left field - Steeleye Span "Rocket Cottage" produced by Mike Batt
How about Costello's Goodbye Cruel World. There's some great songs on there but the production is so everything-but-the-kitchen-sink 1984 its hard to listen to.
ReplyDelete"Steady On" by Shawn Colvin.One of the greatest songwriters(check out Cry Like an Angel) who got caught up in the Windham Hill type over production vortex. These songs stand on their own with just an acoustic guitar but in the 80s with it's big snare sounds they found it mandatory to cram the female songwriters with bells,wind chimes and annoying guitar parts. Suzanne Vega got the same treatment before Shawn.This album won a Grammy at the expense of the great songs on it.
ReplyDeleteAt this point, just about any album with that gated 80s drum sound.
ReplyDeleteCase in point: "Graceland," which I have real trouble listening to lately, and I say that as somebody who absolutely adored it -- with good reason, I think -- when it came out.
Steve Mc, both Goodby Cruel World and Beat The Clock, sound horrible to me, the live cuts and demos included on the Rhino re-issues really underscore the difference. Give me the rawness of Get Happy, or the Beatle-esque Imperial Bedroom, any day.
ReplyDelete