(Gene Simmons, Nassau Coliseum 1979. Alex Lifeson and Geddy Lee, Palladium 1980. Pics taken by me. Me, Zappa's Brooklyn, pic not taken by me)
I listened to Black Sabbath's "Heaven & Hell" this weekend, the first with Ronnie James Dio taking over for Ozzy Osbourne. That record came out in 1980 and 32 years later, I still play it with the same enthusiasm.
This also made me realize, as Burning Wood approaches its 4th year, that hard rock and heavy metal is rarely represented on those pages. It's not for lack of trying. I've made several attempts, with posts, or at the very least, dashes and pinches, with songs or videos by everyone from the aforementioned masters of doom, to Rush to Thin Lizzy to Motorhead and back. And the response has mostly been...well...unresponsive.
Why?
We have no problem listening to punk rock and Joni Mitchell. Some of you have expressed love and respect for both the Beastie Boys and Bobby Darin. Our minds are clearly open. So what gives?
I'll say this, I'm not talking about the hairspray and camera-mugging stylings of inferior, poseur bands like Poison or Cinderella, though I did see the latter open for someone, might have been Kiss, and I loved every minute. I'm talking about the guys that do it well.
So many suggestions from readers over the years have never...yes, never...produced a hard rock or heavy metal record for Burning Wood readers to explore. Maybe it's my fault for not writing about this music more often. Maybe you're all ready to come out but never felt comfortable.
The following are some of my very faves that I still listen to with great fervor and absolutely no irony. Feel free to critique, good or bad. Though, comments like "This sucks" really aren't helpful. Better yet, add to the list, if you hear what I hear.
Again, I love this music with the same truth as I love The Beatles and Todd Rundgren and James Booker and David Bowie. I'm interested in knowing why you don't...or hopefully do...assuming you've not run off already.
And sorry, politics and complete assholiness aside....this rocks.
I never was the most politically correct guy in class so I have no trouble whatsoever rocking out with Ted N. (even if he really is a bit of an asshole). Truth be told, if we passed the average musician through some filter of moral rectitude and upstanding citizenry before allowing them into our record collections we would find ourselves with precious little of worth to listen to.
ReplyDeleteNow, I don't know if this falls fully into the heavy metal bracket (I'm pretty laissez faire when it comes to definitions - I know what I like even if I don't always know what it is) but an album that nearly 40 years on I still return to with great pleasure on a regular basis is Blue Oyster Cult's On Your Feet Or On Your Knees. Works for me every time. I used to think BOC were my guilty pleasure - but I came t realize that I didn't feel guilty about it at all.
Seven Screaming Dizbusters for the delight of all here assembled:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OEeYyrmr7w
I'd also not soon be parted from my copy of Deep Purple's Made in Japan - a definite classic of the genre.
Interesting topic. I see (and hear) a difference between Deep Purple, AC/DC, Aerosmith, BOC, Thin Lizzy - most of their songs are deeply rooted in same tonal colors (blues, bebop, myxolidian, etc) where melodies sound pleasing and in the same continuity as Beatles, Stones, Zep, or even Joni Mitchell and Bobby Darin. But bands like Slayer, Metallica, etc use weirder scales - phyrigian, locrian (I'm probably getting these wrong) where I find the tension a bit uncomfortable. That in and of itself isn't bad because there's a lot of dissonant stuff that I love, but then when it's combined with comic book trite "evil" lyrics, I just can't relate. But every now and then there's a great track - e.g. Enter Sandman - that does, in fairness, draw me in.
ReplyDeleteI prefer the melodic hair metal of Night Ranger, Def Leppard, Winger. I'm not a huge Uncle Ted fan, outside of Stranglehold and his collaborations with Jack Blades (who I think is a fantastic songwriter).
Funny, I hadn't even considered the darker metal bands like Slayer and Metallica when I was putting this together. I can appreciate the speed and the chops of those bands, and I genuinely like alot of Megadeth. But I am mostly with you, Jeff. I once posted a Def Leppard track on these pages that I thought was a perfect hard rock ballad. Just a killer chorus, and the laughing on the other end made my desktop shake.
ReplyDeleteThat memory is what made me remove "Uncle Tom's Cabin" by Warrant from this week's festivities, another song that I think is just fantastic.
As for BOC Rob, I was on the fence about whether they'd fit into my scheme here. That said, I love that band, through and throuugh. Again, once of those bands that souhnds like no one else.
Going back to your list, Sal, and what fits in to the heavy metal scheme of things, I'm in two minds as to whether or not Thin Lizzy belong there. My hesitation stems largely from the way Phil Lynott would deliver a song as if telling you a story or having a conversation with you rather than adopting the strip the skin from your face hectoring of your average metalleer.
DeleteAlso not sure about Queen - I think of them as being more heavy cabaret than heavy metal - as apt to surprise you with their intellect and inventiveness as their high speed fretboard forays (yes, May could do that). Again, this is largely down to the way they, and Mercury in particular, approached a song. Queen, like BOC, were definitely a band that sounded like no one else.
I don't think of Lizzy or Queen as heavy metal. But they do occasionally rock hard. Both of those bands sit in comfortable positions in my Top 10 of all-time, and I feel they've both been stigmatized thanks to the hits.
Deleteis there really anybody who doesn't like some heavy metal? I'd add mid-period UFO to the Aerosmith/Leppard canon, and if you have Leppard you have to have Bon Scott AC/DC. God bless Mutt Lange and his philandering knob twiddlers. I'm one of those who liked Budgie, too. I think The Decline of Western Civ II doc helped put all this in a rosey haze for most of us. That film also helped me appreciate hardcore bands like Die Kreuzen, White Zombie and Straw Dogs who went metal. My beef with most newer bands is their perceived lack of humor outside of O-Negative and Zombie, but they do come up with some amazing sounds (thinking mostly of Neurosis). A great metal mag that does have a sense of humor is Decibel, with its mothers' interviews, horror movie column and the surrealistic last page by John Darnielle of the Mountain Goats. They also do a monthly Hall of Fame article that reconvenes a chosen band to discuss the making of their respective opus. A list of their HOF albums.
ReplyDeleteAll I remember from Wes Civ II is Chris Holmes from WASP in the pool and wondering if it was real or a put on.
ReplyDeleteI would place Dream Theater and the various Neal Morse, Mike Portnoy, Paul Gilbert tributes and collaborations firmly in the pantheon of hard rock heavy metal genius.
ReplyDeleteAh, I can enjoy the poppier end of metal like AC/DC. Does Van Halen count? I would never buy a Van Halen album but I'm happy if they come on the radio. The problem for me is that Metal as a genre feels very ritualized and/or straight-jacketed, very narrow in its concerns both lyrically and musically... very stuck. Kind of like, for me, gangsta rap, or trad (Dixieland) jazz. Plus all that sexual posturing and faux-devil shit is so dopey and adolescent. Isn't Heavy Metal sort of a self-imposed ghetto, anyway? There's plenty of music that shares sonic concerns but it's more ambitious in one way or another so we call it punk or grunge or hard-core or whatever. Or Zeppelin.
ReplyDeleteI know the above is somewhat ignorant since I've never explored heavy metal in any depth. My musical tastes are pretty Catholic, but there are certain genres I just can't get, or don't want to bother to get. Country, for me, is another (again with a few exceptions like I make for heavy metal).
Maybe the problem is my ears, or maybe life is just too short. Or maybe heavy metal really does suck. (Sorry, joke.) But I'm curious if others here who otherwise pride themselves also have certain no-go genres or broad categories of music.
Bruce H
That's a good list, and most definitely fall under the "hard rock" banner, or pre-metal, like Deep Purple and Rainbow. My metal tastes definitely favor the New Wave of British Heavy Metal variety (or NWOBHM), eg. Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Raven, etc. UFO are great. Those are bands that get absolutely NO critical praise and have always been shunned by mainstream press- and probably Burning Wood readers, like Rush - even though these bands have thrived for years and still do, and still have millions of fans and sold millions of records. Maybe it's considered juvenile music - no respect!
ReplyDeleteI would agree with the '70's Schenker version of UFO. Strangers in the Night is a great live album. Just listen to Rock Bottom and Doctor Doctor. Also, on their Lights Out album they do a very nice version of the Love classic Alone Again Or. You can't miss with the first three Rainbow albums, Rising being the best of the three. I still have the cassette of Aerosmith Rocks from when I was fifteen that sadly no longer plays. There are others I could name, but I'll stop. Thanks Sal for the discussion!!
ReplyDelete"Strangers in the Night" is one of the BEST albums! And agree, those Rainbow albums are great, including their live album, which I really loved as a little kid.
DeleteI'll have to get back to you on this. What fun! Nothing like a nice slab of hard rock.
ReplyDeleteThis discussion has only just begun and from the early comments I'm starting to think that the difference between heavy metal and hard rock is much greater than I think. Also looking at my ten choices, Motorhead seems to be the only "metal" band here, and they really aren't. They're just loud.
ReplyDeleteAnd Bruce, "Plus all that sexual posturing and faux-devil shit is so dopey and adolescent." Can't argue with you there.
But take something like this:
THIS
What if you don't have to look at the band?
assholiness??? The dictionary according to Sal. Well, it has Holiness in it, so Ted may not come hunting for you.
ReplyDeleteFirst, going to the first poster, Rob, EXCELLENT reference with Seven Screaming Dizbusters. That is one of those songs, that I have to play twice when it comes up on my playlist. And that live album, one of the best musically, though, one of the worst produced albums ever. A plus for having Scott Muni doing their intro.
Now, back to the blog, yes we need more metal/hard rock, whatever you want to call it, we need it. Many of the musicians in this genre are severely under-rated due to the prejudice against head banging music. Nearly everything that Dio touched was awesome.
A list of metal/Hard Rock bands that would be a welcome addition to the blog every now and then:
Tool, Soundgarden, STP, Metallica, Motorhead, Blue Cheer, Iron Maiden ...
P.S. I was at that show at the Palladium also. Did we go together? I remember they always used to put down that carpet when they played the Palladium.
This is such an amazing list of songs--I can barely contain my excitement while listening! I don't know the difference between hard rock and heavy metal, and I don't care. I only know I loved and still love these bands (minus Motorhead, with the exception of "Ace of Spades," which is actually okay) and I've always thought "Rainbow Rising" belonged on some kind of rock god altar to be worshipped forever.
ReplyDeleteHeavy metal is rarely spoken about outside of its ghetto, at least not without irony, because it never went away. it can't be rediscovered - today, everybody knows what yobbos Saxon were/are and either you like them or not; there won't be a critical reappraisal.
ReplyDeleteWhat's metal and what isn't may be the more interesting discussion. Trower, to me, is spacey blues rock; there are no piledrivers in sight. Same with Cactus, Mountain, etc. But like Van Halen above, what do you make of Grand Funk, Montrose, Status Quo or the Plasmatics? What surprised me with Weigel's prog series last week was when Atomic Rooster was included under the prog umbrella. Maybe because they had a keyboard, maybe because Carl Palmer was briefly a member. But this to me is early heavy metal. Don't get me started on Uriah Heep.
A cute taxonomy.
This topic of what is hard rock to heavy metal has been a subject of mine that few in my circle of friends agree with. Heavy metal is a shifting title as time progresses. Black Sabbath was considered heavy in 1970 and unplayable on radio but is considered safe for classic rock today. Metallica too when they arrived were the new standard of heavy metal. Yet hard rock is a label all seem to agree on. From Zep to Van Halen to Guns. Now what makes a hair band is another sore subject. Mahalo
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of hard rock back in the late '60s and early 1970s, Mountain comes most readily to mind and "Mississippi Queen" seems pretty emblematic of the genre back in that period. I think McCartney saw hard rock as a bit of a challenge, and my guess is that "Helter Skelter" was his answer (although not to M.Q., which came out later).
ReplyDeleteWith the exception, I own and have enjoyed all these cuts in my life. It;s just that at this advanced age these songs now hurt my teeth.
ReplyDeleteI love this conversation. Loved Punk/New Wave in High School and seriously disavowed any notion of metal in any form, not unlike the kid who won't eat a particular cereal because he doesn't like the way the box looks. Then one day, I wound up with someone's crappy tape: Metallica's Kill 'Em All on one side, Iron Maiden's Powerslave on the other. Powerslave remains to this day, one of my favorite records. I share this cautionary tale with the young people I work with periodically because it perfectly illustrates how rejecting something out of hand without examining it can potentially cheat yourself out of memorable experiences. I could have seen Iron Maiden perform said album with original lineup. I was too much of a stuck up punk-ass. Fortunately, I've been able to go back and dig up some good stuff I missed the first time around. Maybe there's hope for me yet.
ReplyDeleteSort of tangential to what you're getting at with this post, I think but still worth mentioning.
Must credit Norbizness: If you are unsure whether it is True Metal, then it is Butt Rock.
ReplyDeleteThat first Ted Nugent album is a stone classic. Also, the first Montrose album is essentially a sonic blueprint for so much that followed. Will certainly be listening to some metal today, thanks to your list and the many comments. Should be an outstanding day!
ReplyDeleteMcCartney was inspired to write "Helter Skelter" after reading a 1967 Guitar Player magazine interview with The Who's Pete Townshend where he described their latest single, "I Can See for Miles", as the loudest, rawest, dirtiest song the Who had ever recorded.
ReplyDeleteOn 20 November 1968, two days before the release of The Beatles, McCartney gave Radio Luxembourg an exclusive interview, in which he commented on several of the album’s songs. Speaking of "Helter Skelter", he said: "Umm, that came about just 'cause I'd read a review of a record which said, 'and this group really got us wild, there's echo on everything, they're screaming their heads off.' And I just remember thinking, 'Oh, it'd be great to do one. Pity they've done it. Must be great — really screaming record.' And then I heard their record and it was quite straight, and it was very sort of sophisticated. It wasn't rough and screaming and tape echo at all. So I thought, 'Oh well, we'll do one like that, then.' And I had this song called "Helter Skelter," which is just a ridiculous song. So we did it like that, 'cuz I like noise."
I had 18 months rapt in the NWOBHM over here and although I'd never want to go back, it was one of the most enjoyable times of my life.
ReplyDeleteTrue, 17 is a better age to be than approaching 50, but although I rarely listen to anything from that time now, the people I know and knew were amazing individuals with a generous spirit and a wicked sense of humour.
Then again they are all probably listening to what I do now.
I'm off to find my Bullet Belt.
Judging by cover versions, the hardest, heaviest Beatles song was "I am the Walrus" - done by Spooky Tooth, Crack the Sky and Gray Matter.
ReplyDeleteSal's appreciation of Heaven and Hell brings up a subject that may only be germane to heavy metal - replacement vocalists, when were they ever worth it? Personally, I like the last two Montrose albums better than the ones with Hagar.
And what about the power ballad? Guilty pleasure or waste of time? What to do about Cheap Trick (and why was "The Flame" their biggest hit?)?
It's always tricky trying to label a band as "hard rock" or "heavy metal". For instance, I always cringe when Zep is referred to as heavy metal. They are not. They are hard rock/blues, and just about the only member in that category.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of heavy metal, I think of the lead singer screaming rather than singing, and the rhythm section playing the same riff throughout the song: DUM DUM-DUM-DE-DUM,DUM DUM-DUM-DE-DUM.
All very tedious.
And anyone who doesn't think Queen was hard rock didn't listen to their first two albums.
Used to be you got Heavy Metal by taking Hard Rock and adding Stupid to it. That's the difference between Aerosmith and Rainbow, Sabbath, Mr Big, and the Nuge. Motorhead has the best logo. Queen started out as Hard Rock, but then wanted to be Led Beatles. "Bridge of Sighs" is a thing of beauty. Thin Lizzy is like wanabe Springsteen.
ReplyDeleteNow Metal is more like Goth mixed with Industrial.
Nobody plays Hard Rock anymore unless it's Alternative.
@Buzzbabyjesus
ReplyDeleteBruce and Phil Lynott are two writers and performers I hold very dear to my heart. I take it your comment "Thin Lizzy is like a wanabe Springsteen" isn't meant to be complimentary.
I'm pretty sure Lizzy's first three albums pre-date Bruce's, but even if they didn't, there shouldn't be anything wrong with two like minds on different sides of the world writing with passion about their lives and hardships in their hometowns.
Just this afternoon I had a conversation with a friend about Lizzy, and how they are either loved, or thought of as one hit wonders.
Their is depth to Lizzy. Depth in Lynott's poetry. Depth is his vocal delivery. Depth in the music and arrangements. And yes, they could get drunk, let loose, get stupid occasionally and play some hard rock and blues.
I honestly don't see any similarity between Thin Lizzy and Bruce Springsteen, not lyrically or musically.
DeleteI can't see were Lynott ever wanted to be Springsteen and although I like both, it's not a defence, I just don't get it.
I continually express my love for Guns & Roses: Appetite is great and both volumes of Use Your Illusion still get spins around my place. Great, great stuff with timeless production.
ReplyDeleteAnd the debut album from The Darkness -- is not a joke. Or if it's a joke, I'm fully getting it and smiling every time it spins.
But, oddly enough, apart from the those two bands -- and all the DLR Van Halen albums and the Bon Scott AC/DC albums, I never really got that much into really *hard* rock -- except for the above. I mean I won't turn any Ronnie James Dio off the classic rock station (or Randy Rhodes-era Ozzy), but oddly enough I don't own any of it.
OK, I own "Crazy Train" on 45. Great, great song. I would've added that to last week's "amazing records" had I thought about it.
*Metal* bands -- the really hard stuff -- I never really got. I mean I appreciate Judas Priest (a British friend in college was *really* into Metal and I never got what he tried to lay on me...) , but would never really listen to them on my own.
I never consider Thin Lizzy as "heavy metal" although there are probably plenty of other William Burroughs coined phrases to describe them. Like Steely Dan they don't comfortably fit into any catagory. My top five in no real order are "My Woman From Tokyo" Deep Purple(For the drumming of Ian Paice) "Monster" Steppenwolf(John Kay's vocal) "Black Maria" Todd Rundgren(lead guitar)"This Ain't The Summer of Love" B.O.C (for the title alone)and "Space Station #5" Montrose(space and time makin love)
ReplyDeleteI don't know enough about Thin Lizzy to have a viable opinion. He had a good voice.
ReplyDeleteMy list:
ReplyDeleteDef Leppard, High and Dry (great album, forget everything from 1987 onward)
Van Halen: From VH I to Fair Warning, really original and unprecedented albums that still sound fresh. A Different Kind of Truth is a really strong comeback album, which still shocks me.
AC/DC, High Voltage
Tesla, The Great Radio Controversy. Underrated band who could actually play.
Metallica, .....And Justice For All
Guns and Roses, Appetite for Destruction. If it came out for the first time today, it would still kick everyone in the nether regions.
The Who, Live at Leeds. More powerful than a locomotive.
Black Sabbath, Heaven and Hell really is a tremendous album.
Haha, someone mentioned Montrose. If you grew up on the San Francisco Bay Area peninsula in the 70s like I did, Montrose was HUGE. "You're rock candy baby / Hard, sweet, and sticky." Inescapable on KSJO and KOME. Just thinking about that song flashes me back to getting stoned in a Pinto.
ReplyDeleteBruce H.
What? No Steel Panther?!??
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/user/steelpantherrocks?feature=results_main
Yes, they're a joke band, and I'm not an actual fan, but I would still take them over Poison and Cinderella. I'd take them over crazy uncle ted, too.
On a more serious note, a lot of the music described above has a certain aesthetic, and it hits my ears and falls flat to the floor. I mean, I very occasionally like a little Aerosmith, AC/DC, or Sabbath, but most of the bands listed on this page don't really do anything for me.
I'm a little late to the party this week, but I wanted to throw my .02 in. I don't know if any of these would be considered metal now...probably not but who really cares what the category is. There was so much hard rock back in the mid to late 70's and I got to live it all the first time in high school. I guess this was our FM radio soundtrack: Aerosmith, Thin Lizzy, Rainbow, UFO, Rush...so much great music that I still love. I don't play it every day but on occasion it still sounds great.
ReplyDeleteI've been through my files, test driving a lot of Hard Rock, looking for something relevant to share. I've been pretty dismissive lately, so here's something I like a lot. Sittin Back Easy, by Patto, featuring the sublime Ollie Halsall, and not easily dimissed.
ReplyDeletehttp://alanwalkerart.com/audio/sittin_back_easy.mp3
After Patto, Ollie joined Tempest, replacing Alan Holdsworth and the singer, becoming the frontman, guitarist and principle songwriter.
ReplyDeleteThey made one album and Ollie left, breaking up the band. Here's their version of "Paperback Writer". Interesting to note that Ollie played "Paul" on the Rutles records.
http://alanwalkerart.com/audio/paperback_writer.mp3
I apologise...........for nothing! After "Paperback Writer" must come this version of "Day Tripper", also from 1972, by Randy California DBA "Kapton Kopter and The Fabulous Twirly Birds". Another one album band.
ReplyDeletehttp://alanwalkerart.com/audio/day_tripper.mp3
Ollie was great in a band, those you mention and Boxer, but for me, he was best as the sideman to the main man, his playing just adapted to anything.
ReplyDeleteAlthough he stuck with Ayers for a long time, his best playing was with John Cale on that 1985 tour and to think he was smacked out of his head on most nights.
I like the song Lights by Journey. Also The Party's Over.
ReplyDelete